EAST PALESTINE, Ohio — As questions and concerns remain after the Ohio train derailment in East Palestine, calls are being made for changes to the rail industry -- including a new list announced Tuesday by U.S. Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg.
3News' Dave Chudowsky spoke one-on-one with Buttigieg about these calls for action in a 12-minute interview. During the conversation, Buttigieg also addressed his thoughts on the people of East Palestine and some of the changes he would like to see happen soon.
Below you will find each element discussed in our interview.
You're calling on the rail industry to take immediate steps to improve accountability and safety with the rail industry. Looking through the notes, it seems like a lot of this just makes common sense.
US Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg: “There are a lot of common sense safety steps that the rail industry has fought tooth and nail, both when it comes to regulation from my department and when it comes to their own conduct. Today is a three-part drive: Things that we’re doing, things we’re insisting that the railroad companies do and things that we’re calling on Congress to do in order to help us hold rail companies accountable. Like allowing us to have stiffer fines when we catch them in a major violation.
Look, for years and years, the railroad industry has spent millions lobbying, building up power in Washington to push back on common sense safety regulations like the one that we’re working on at the department to require that you have at least two people on the staff on a train. Believe it or not, they’ve been pushing to get that down to one even though trains are getting, often, much more than a mile long. These are things that are needed. Now that I think there's renewed bipartisan interest in Congress in the wake of what's happened to the people of East Palestine after that derailment. Now is the time to change the direction of the rail industry when it comes to their willingness to support instead of fight a higher bar on accountability and safety.”
Do you feel like through this process there has been a fight? Are you getting the reaction that is deserving and needed?
Buttigieg: “We're going to find out how they respond to this specific set of things that I'm insisting that they do. Certainly, ever since I got this job they have been resisting pushes to do things like the two-person staffing rule, like the tougher standards we want to have on tank cars and their condition on other things having to do with how these trains are operated. So this is a moment to demonstrate that they’re serious. I hope they take it. We’re not counting on them to do the right thing on their own. We’re going to be using focused inspections and a higher level of regulation on our side. We also really need Congress to work with us.
Right now, even if we catch a railroad in a violation that leads to a fatality, the most that we can fine them for in this department is about a quarter of a million dollars per violation. While a quarter of a million dollars might be a lot of money for a regular American, it is dust to a multi-billion dollar company like Norfolk Southern or the other major freight railroad companies. So we’d like Congress to work with us to add power and teeth to the railroad regulations we’ve already been developing so that we can have the right level of accountability and prevent derailments and crashes in the future.”
Can you explain a little bit more on how you go about doing that with Congress and what you are asking them?
Buttigieg: “To be clear, there are some things that we’re pursuing right now that we’re not going to have to wait on Congress to do. But, a lot of this is part of statute enacted by Congress. To give you an example, a couple of administrations ago there was a push to make sure that we have stronger tank cars, a higher standard for when you’re carrying certain kinds of hazardous materials. The date to get those across the system was 2025. Congress then went in, and through the law, watered that down and pushed the date out to 2029. I think we ought to move that date back up.
We’re still waiting on the NTSB, which is independent for some of their root-cause analysis about what happened in Ohio, but it is not too soon to know that this would be a good move for safety and something that we should get done. I’d also like for Congress to give us a freer hand on rules around hazardous material handling along brakes. Look, we’re going to do everything we can with the authorities that we have. But I think a lot of these members of Congress – especially ones who in the past have been ready to carry water for the railroad industry and now are saying that they’re all over this issue -- I think now is the time to demonstrate that by coming to the table on a bipartisan basis to raise the bar on accountability.”
People are searching for answers. Who is accountable to the people of East Palestine? Who do residents go to?
Buttigieg: “When it comes to their safety, that’s where the EPA -- and I know the administrator is on the ground again today -- and state authorities can give them the best answers on the results of testing: Air testing, soil testing, water testing. Meanwhile, you’ve got the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). They are independent from my agency. They are independent for good reason. They’re generally the ones who are first to create an analysis of the causes.
Then on the health side, because I know there are a lot of health concerns. That’s very understandable. If you live near this incident, you’ve seen the headlines. Maybe you’ve seen the smoke. When you come down with something you’re going to ask yourself: Are these things connected? That’s why CDC is on the ground and other public health officials. Where my department comes in is that we are here to hold railroad companies accountable both for this incident and for the future, making sure that the future is safer than the past.”
Would someone at Norfolk Southern be accountable? Would it be realistic to think people could reach out to them?
Buttigieg: "Norfolk Southern has apologized. They have promised to do everything to make it right with the community. We’re not just going to take them at their word, though. We need to have real enforcement. We’re working on that on our side based on the authority we have. I know EPA is holding them accountable on the cleanup side. But for a resident who needs information, I would certainly begin by getting that environmental testing that is available through state and local authorities supported by the EPA. Of course, one of the fundamental things anybody wants to know is that their home is safe, their water is safe, their yard is safe, the air is safe. You can get access to that testing that I think everybody deserves information on right now.”
With trains still rolling through, can we ensure the residents there that it’s safe?
Buttigieg: “That’s exactly why we are leading this drive with three parts: Our own actions as a department, things we want Congress to work with us on for the future and calling on industry to change. Industry could move right now to accelerate the way these tank cars are handled. Industry could move right now to do something I know Gov. DeWine is concerned about and I think he's exactly right, which is to get more information to states in advance of these materials moving into their jurisdictions. We’re going to raise the bar on the legal side, but these railroad companies should not wait for that in order to do the right thing.”
Do you feel the railroad industry has been in resistance to you?
Buttigieg: “Absolutely. Look, the railroad industry fights regulations tooth and nail. They go to the courts, they go to this department and they go to Congress -- and often they get their way. The requirement about getting those new cars that I described was watered down after industry pushed for that in Congress. Often I will get letters, sometimes from members of Congress or the Senate, that have clearly been drafted by the industry asking us to soften our standards or soften our inspection practices. They are an industry that has a lot of power in this town, but it’s time to stand up to this industry and get things done.”
Former President Trump will be visiting East Palestine. What are your thoughts on that?
Buttigieg: “I’ll just say this. One thing I learned early on in my time as a mayor dealing with a lot of disasters is that there’s two kinds of people who show up when there’s a disaster: Folks who are there with a specific job to do and with action that’s going to make a difference. Then folks who want to look good. I’ll let people make their own decisions.”
Will you be heading there?
Buttigieg: "I am planning to come. I’ve been careful to respect the independent role of the NTSB and stay out of their way, but we’re now entering the phase where it’s about policy. It’s about what my department does, which is ensuring that there’s a high standard for these railroad companies. I think an important part of that process is to be with the residents of East Palestine, to hear their stories and to talk about the action that we’re taking right now.”
They don’t have paid sick time in the rail industry? Is that accurate?
Buttigieg: “That’s one more thing that we’re calling for right now that the railroads can do. There are a couple of railroads – CSX and Union Pacific – that have taken steps to reach agreements with their unions to create paid sick time. All of them should do this. They should’ve done this a long time ago. They shouldn’t wait for a national negotiation again in order to make it happen. A healthy workforce is a safe workforce, and this is something that people who work in railroads should be able to expect.
By the way, the bigger pattern here is that the railroads have cut and cut and cut when it comes to employment even as they’re making billions and billions of dollars in profits. Employment in the rail industry is down dramatically. A lot of the positions that have been eliminated are positions around safety, positions around maintenance. It is time for the railroad industry to focus less on wringing out every last bit of profit out of these operations, more on investing in the workers and the operations so that they’re safe.”
What about advanced notification of when you have these hazardous chemicals rolling through town? Your thoughts on the amount of time it took to react?
Buttigieg: "There are requirements now. I think that those requirements need to be toughened, but again, I don’t think the railroads should wait for us to go through all of the legalities of that process to start proactively notifying people that they’re on their way through.
In terms of the response, this administration has been on the ground, literally, from the first hours. As I said, we respect the independent role of the NTSB, but we’ve had Department of Transportation personnel on the ground within the first hours of the incident. EPA is on the ground and now there’s public health support coming in, too."
Any last comments if you have any?
Buttigieg: "I think part of doing right by the people of East Palestine is to make sure that we raise the bar on rail safety. That’s the action that I’m focused on, to have real accountability for Norfolk Southern and a whole industry that has fought us at every turn on safety and higher standards.
But I think now is time for a change.
Any of the political figures who’ve wanted to get on TV and talk about this, I am inviting them to the table to work with us because there are some real things we could get done quickly with their help in Congress -- and we’re going to do everything we can in the mean time with our own powers."
What a tough time this has been for the people there.
Buttigieg: “It is. We’re talking about people who have done nothing wrong. People whose lives have been upended through no fault of their own. Norfolk Southern has to do right by them, but our country has to do right by them and any other community that lives on or near a rail line saying, ‘What does this incident mean for me? Am I going to be safe?’”
The people have been hearing that it's safe, but they’re concerned about the future.
Buttigieg: “I would be, too. This is something that anybody who lives near a railroad now is worried about in a renewed way. But we can do something about this. Actions in the past, including a higher bar on regulation, has helped to prevent train derailments and crashes. Now we have to make sure that that action continues so that things like what happened in East Palestine don’t happen again.”